My interview with Matt Cooper on The Last Word, concerning the death of former IRA member and suspected British spy, Freddie Scappaticci, 12 April 2023
Matt Cooper: So as I mentioned there before the break, Freddie Scappaticci, a name that really jumped into the public consciousness about 20 years ago, died recently it was announced last night. We are joined by Aaron Edwards, author of Agents of Influence: Britain’s Secret Intelligence War Against the IRA. And Aaron before we address the issue as to whether Freddie Scappaticci was a British spy within the IRA – and if he was the infamous person known as Stakeknife – tell us first please about Scappaticci within the IRA and what he actually did with them.
Aaron Edwards: Good evening Matt – it’s great to be with you this evening. Freddie Scappaticci is a name that we’ve grown quite accustomed to hear around the legacy around the Northern Ireland Troubles for the past 20 years, ever since he was outed as a British spy, or a suspected spy. Within the Provisional IRA he rose to prominence within their Internal Security Unit, known as the “Nutting Squad”. They had the dubious task – almost Gestapo-like – of arresting members of the Provisional IRA who were accused of betraying their comrades. Basically, they were seized, they were interrogated and, in some cases, they were murdered. And so he had a revered reputation within the ranks of the Provisional IRA.
Matt Cooper: Sorry, he was feared wasn’t he? He was almost like a psychopath in the way that he dealt with some of these people, wasn’t he?
Aaron Edwards: Absolutely, I mean some of the written accounts, some of the experiences of the victims – and survivors, more importantly – of Scappaticci’s reign of terror testify to just the profound lack of any kind of empathy or any kind of remorse in dealing with them within the confines of that republican community that he stalked for many years.
Matt Cooper: And then, of course, the allegation that 20 years ago now was that while he was performing that odious role for the IRA he was also actually in the pay of the British security services. Tell us about this.
Aaron Edwards: Yes, that’s right, so he was accused in a media hyped frenzy in 2003 of being some kind of spy for the British and, of course, that rang alarm bells within the Republican Movement because he had been considered for a long time beyond any kind of reproach because of the role he had, basically in undertaking an internal security role for the movement, the Republican Movement. And I think it was shock and surprise that greeted many of his former comrades who then discovered he had been working for the British all along. And so it really drew attention towards the activities of people within that Internal Security Unit and a cloud of suspicion then descended upon them about their actions and their motivations, and he was central to that.
Matt Cooper: And it raised a number of issues because he was in the pay of the British. They would have known that he actually involved in killing people but allowed him to continue on the basis that he was providing information that allowed them to arrest – or, in other cases, kill republicans.
Aaron Edwards: Well, of course, since 2015 the Police Service of Northern Ireland commissioned a criminal investigation into the activities of the agent known as Stakeknife, it has indeed been the case that beginning with 24 known murders that that has gone up to almost 40, and perhaps beyond. That the agent known as Stakeknife was responsible for those and so, really, there are serious questions that have been asked, not only in terms of that criminal investigation – and I can only talk about that from an intrigued outsider. But given the publicity that surrounds it one expects quite a hard hitting report, if that ever comes out, into the activities and into the sort of ethical lines that were crossed in the handling of agents and sources. And the Freddie Scappaticci story is, as I have said, central to that. He was considered for a long time, apparently by those in a position to know, as a “golden egg”, a valuable asset, in some ways trying to defeat the Provisional IRA. And so this does have very serious political consequences – it will have political consequences because it really goes to the heart of the legacy – questions about the legacy – of the conflict and about how we move on from the past.
Matt Cooper: But Aaron, a couple of things to finish. Are we ever likely to be told the truth. We keep saying allegedly he was Stakeknife. There has been no definitive judgement on that as yet, but given this inquiry, which has been going on for 8 years now, given the political sensitivities, is it likely ever to give us the truth?
Aaron Edwards: I think asking questions about the truth – it’s difficult because a lot of those people who were in positions of authority – who were in positions to know the answers to a lot of these questions – are deceased. So, really, we now find that Freddie Scappaticci, the source at the heart of this is himself gone, and I think he has taken a lot of those secrets to his grave with him. So, the chances of us knowing precisely what went on and why are, again, likely to be open questions at the end of an investigation – a criminal investigation – that we know under the auspices of Operation Kenova – so it is anyone’s guess.
Matt Cooper: So, one other thing. There was another IRA defector who was murdered 20 years ago in Donegal, Eamon Collins, and he was killed by his former colleagues. How does Scappaticci manage to stay safe for the 20 years that he was unmasked?
Aaron Edwards: That’s a great question and most of the people I have spoken to in my book Agents of Influence, those people who were in the Republican Movement with Scappaticci – who had suspicions about his activities – I think they would admit that within the ranks of their movement that there are people who simply believe that he had more information than he was ever likely to reveal – and information on them – so it made the whole process and whole sort of edifice of the Republican Movement quite delicate and fragile. And so the allegation is, of course, on some occasions, he was even rumoured to be back in Belfast at family funerals and so on, because he knew more information about them. And that is the real corrosive effect that the Scappaticci revelations have had on the republican movement, you know, simply beyond the role of the British state here. And that remains the case to this day.
Matt Cooper: Aaron Edwards, author of Agents of Influence: Britain’s Secret Intelligence War Against the IRA, thank you for joining us.
Op Kenova ‘reviewed’ (what a total cover-up & a whitewash) my 1991 IRA ‘nutting squad’ kidnapping. The end result was that they have covered up the entire truth.
I was groomed by RUC / Special branch (and their puppetmasters, MI5) as a teenager. At that time I had no involvement whatsoever with the IRA. I was trained & then inserted into the IRA as a spy an ‘agent’. When my cover was blown, in August 1991, I was kidnapped by IRA ‘nutting squad’ & by no fewer than three Protected state informers (4 if Freddie Scappaticci, was their boss at that time). The RUC, special branch and MI5 colluded with PIRA, its ‘nutting squad’ to have me kidnapped & murdered.
Jon Boutcher (Mr Kenova) also ‘reviewed’ (another Big Dirty Cover up & a whitewash) my 1999 IRA shooting case, the corrupt Northumbtia Police ‘investigation’ of it. And Mr Kenova covered up everything, he’s been covering up the Truth in both my cases (as well as his re-written ‘reports’ ) since late 2018. Jon Boutcher has ignored each and every question I have asked him as the victim regarding his ‘review’, his findings in my 1999 IRA shooting case
Anyone thinking of getting involved with Jon Boutcher or his Op Kenova – I trusted them once.. not any more – should take note of the above. I would not trust Jon Boutcher nor his Op Kenova to put my bins out.
I’m the only person that I’m aware of who was kidnapped by the IRA ‘nutting squad’, he managed to escaped and, who has lived to tell the tale. And most of all. I have been naming my ‘nutting squad’ kidnappers (the Protected state informers) for the past three decades (including in books, Tv interviews, in newspapers etc. And yet Jon Boutcher, his Op Kenova have Blocked my case from the Op Kenova ‘investigation’. What’s that all about?
Having dealt with Op Kenova & Jon Boutcher since late 2017, a Big mistake, and looking at how I have been treasted by them (as an IRA victim twice over) I’m expecting the Op Kenova ‘investigation’ reports -if the reports ever see the light of day and because of the above- to be the Mother of all Whitewashes. Just like with the Jon Boutcher ‘review’ (whitewash and cover-up) of my 1999 IRA shooting case. And the Op Kenova ‘review’ (whitewash and cover up) of my 1991 IRA kidnapping cases.
Complaints I have made against Mr Kenova, resulting from his ‘reviews’ were never ‘investigated’. His former Bedfordshire Police, OPCC and the IPCC / IOPC Protected, Blocked and Closed down the complaints I made against Mr Kenova.
@McGartlandnews (Martin McGartland) 13/04/2023